Orting News Answer Poll

Comment #29: It's unfair to ask a poll question about a person - it only leads to critical statements. Keep the poll questions about topics/issues - not people.

Comment #28: As the parent of an Orting High School basketball player, I am saddened by the nature of many of the comments made here. As others have said, I too want to be part of a winning program, but realize what matters most is teaching leadership, discipline, respect and integrity. I would like to comment on respect and integrity - in all the comments below, respect and integrity are each only mentioned twice. Personally, I commend coach Miller for his willingness to work with teenagers who are often not taught these same values at home that we are asking them to learn on the court. These are not values that can be taught (or caught) a few hours a day, a few months out of the year. They must be taught and modeled constantly. As I see it, whether you agree or disagree with Coach Miller’s basketball coaching ability, is not the only issue here. I am bothered that anyone who feels it necessary to make negative comments in a public forum about any individual without the fortitude to be willing to sign their name, needs to take a hard look at their own values as well as what they are teaching their children about dealing with difficult circumstances, respecting others and showing integrity. Before our kids can be taught sports related discipline they have to first be taught respect for anyone put in the position of instilling that discipline in them; whether you agree or disagree with the person put in that position. Respectfully Submitted, Rob Harrington

Comment #27: actually, coach kinch was a superb coach. so dont say that clyde was the last

Comment #26: thank you all for all your input. its great to have parents and fans of the game that care about orting so much. the bottom line is that we all want to see our program succeed. obviously enough right? But, there is a point that we have to realize that parents and fans only have half of the story. sure, the committed townspeople show up twice a week in the winter to see the boys play. but were any of you on the court with Mr. Miller everyday for months? how much room do you really have to talk? its time a player says something. some of the "reasons" for Miller being a bad coach were so outlandish. reasons like, "he changed up the offense every week". holy cow. of course he changed the offense every week. Forgive me but, have you ever watched a minute of basketball in your life? you adapt to your opponent's strengths and attack their weaknesses. Are you honestly suggesting we stay the same the whole year and just let teams pick us apart on film? Show me a coach that did that successfully and i'll give you five bucks. in reference comment number 18: Joe Jackson Gibbs coached for the redskins for twelve years. in this time he took the football team to the play-offs eight times, won four NFC titles and won the Super bowl three times. Joe Jackson Gibbs never once put a football helmet on. You don't have to play the game to know how it's played. Finally, to address everyone talking about character. I’m sorry, but I’m a 17 year old kid who likes to win. to be totally honest, I could care less about character right now. I want to win. and to win our school needs a program. programs don't happen over night. hate to break it to you, but programs don't happen in a year either. or two or three. Mr. Miller is developing a program. My basketball team is developing the future program of Orting high school. If we lost every game but were a part of a program that went on to succeed because of our efforts, it would be worth it to all of us. I will sweat on the court in our gym for kids that are going to play there in four years when I’m not even around. we do not want our class to have one winning year just to watch the years to come go down the drain. we want Orting High to succeed. Not just the class of 2009 or 2010. and if it takes a "long run" outlook then so be it. It’s about the legacy, not the moment. thanks for all of your time and comments. -Janssen Powers Orting high school basketball captain

Comment #25: Wow ... this REALLY is a small town - with lots of small people. Is this even a relevant question in light of gas prices, people losing jobs, kids in schools with drug problems, etc? I think not and that such a question is even asked is a sad commentary on our community at large. These comments could all have been made by one person - what does this poll even prove?

Comment #24: For comment #23, get your facts straight... I was at the school board meeting that the current coach was discussed and the trophy was brought by someone else, was missing it's label and was from the 1960's. Again, misinformation about what is really happening. People need to wake up and seperate there friendship of Miller and think about the kids. Also, there was another joke at the banquet. It was relayed by John with a kid who will hardly look a person in the eye standing with him about how they were shut out by Vashon in the 7th grade while he was playing and John Coaching. Now that is something to talk about... And you know what, I would be proud about what Dale did 20 years ago, and to try to teach the kids how to obtain the same type of goals. Why should he be shy about it? It worked.

Comment #23: The only reason the focus is on basketball is because one of Orting's OLD didn't get his way. What about the girl's volleyball? How many coaches in how many years? Over and over last year the basketball players heard "Back when I was a player..." It was even a joke at the banquet. (Dale didn't get the boys were not impressed with what he did 20 years ago.) And to bring a 20 year old trophy to a school board meeting? Coach Miller is not the one to be embarrassed. If parents are taking their kids out of school because of a sport, let them leave and may they leave quickly!!! Let the rest of us enjoy the short time we have with our kids without their negativity.

Comment #22: It is always nice to win, but there is more to a high school sports program than winning. The life lessons and relationships that are obtained through sports far exceed the trophies behind the cabinet. I attended a few games this year, my kids do not play on the team, and I have no bias. It was very obvious that the players are not learning some of the key elements of high school sports---such as teamwork, respect, and communication. I saw the team play with 4 on the court because the players did not make eye contact during transition, Players come off the court and go straight to the end of the bench----No “Coaching” related to their performance, positive or negative. I could not believe that all of the varsity players were not in the huddle during the time outs---some were sitting or standing 10 feet away---shoulders down, looking at the floor---ZERO morale. The physical stature and emotions displayed in that gymnasium made it very clear that the team was not a “Team”. It is sad that this “Issue” has gone to this level, School board meeting, newspaper articles, community comments, and finger pointing. The issue should not be that they only won 2 games or 5 games, it should be that they players are not learning respect, team guidance, discipline, leadership, conflict resolution and all of the other life skills that Basketball can be used as a tool to teach. The net result is that the Orting basketball program is not providing the players with the mentorship they deserve.

Comment #21: I played for various coaches while at Orting and they taught me about sports and life. I can't even mention Mr. Miller in the same breath as Joe Kilby and Jerry Clyde. Has Orting changed so much that we have lost our pride? Orting has never had the biggest, fastest or most talented players in any sport, but we have always had teams that played hard. Coaches from other teams would always compliment Orting on how are teams hussled and gave it their all. I believe that is gone because it is not being instilled by the coaches. The Orting School District Administration has chosen to do nothing, which is unfortunate. So the kids will suffer. I almost believe that it would be better to not have a boys basketball program at this point and encourage kids to wrestle or to waive out of the district to play. If some considers Mr. Miller a friend, they should pull him aside and be very frank with him. He is embarassing himself and the community at this point. If he wants to remain in coaching he needs to be an assistant to someone that is more knowledgable. As far as the comments about Dale DeVries coaching, have someone else coach. I have a hard time believing that there is no one in the Orting School District that is qualified to fill the position. I guess my last comment is that there will be a lot of people watching the OHS Boys Basketball program and Mr. Miller's behavior this upcoming season. So I believe next Spring when it comes to contract renewal time we will be back here discussing this again.

Comment #20: In regards to comment #17, this is not just Dale, the tag has only been pinned on him as an excuse to justify keeping Miller. There are many other people who feel just as passionate or even more. This definitely isn't just a few whiners but many people who care about the community, the school and especially the kids who are being short changed by the school board, administration, AD and Miller. Teaching kids to be unorganized, undisciplined, do whatever you want, yell when things don't go your way..... And then blame it on someone else... Is that what you want our kids to be taught?... What about trust, respect, integrity, team work, discipline.... These are the things that make good people and citizens and will allow the kids to be sucessful in life. This is all about the kids and the impacts that the coaches they have have on their lives.

Comment #19: To all...we have reached out to Coach Miller in an effort to secure an interview for Orting News and we have yet to hear back from him but are working on it. Per #17, Orting News gives everybody the ability to publish their thoughts unedited...that is why Orting News is "Community News BY the Community". There is no backing, just publishing the thoughts and views of your neighbors for all to view and comment. ~Rich Carr

Comment #18: Mr. Miller should have never been put in the position of head coach. He never played the game and had very little coaching experience, and he certainly has no knowlegge of the game. The head coaching position is not where you gain the experience. Many players are leaving the district as Miller knows very little about coaching, sportsmanship, and lacks the ability to get the best from his players. Anyone that knows something about basketball knows he is not a coach and never will be. Until the district hires a new coach the program will continue in the same direction as its has been going since he became coach. There has been plenty of good athletes in the basketball program, but lack of leadership and not teaching fundamentals, prevents a team from winning. I have spoken to enough coaches and people that know and love the game and they all say the same thing about Mr. Miller. The players and the community of Orting deserve better. A change is long over-due

Comment #17: It is so wrong how this paper has backed Dale Devries on his jealous viscious take over of Coach Miller, Dale just wanted his job and now you are backing his insanity.

Comment #16: Comment #11 needs to wake up and smell the bacon. Things have changed and the fact remains: this is 2008 and WINNING is the only thing that matters in high school sports. Kids don't like losing and they don't like being teased about being in a losing city or program. This is a sad reality since you learn a lot about yourself when you do lose, but high school sports are as competitive as the NBA, actually high school kids care more about winning than pros do. So, if this guy hasn't won then get someone in there that can win. Kid's talent level is a copout and always has been. Watch hoosiers and tell me about talent winning basketball games in high school. A good coach wins with whatever he has. Now we have some good talent coming up in a few years and a coach can either make kids worse or better. I think coach Miller has shown us what he can do. Who's next?

Comment #15: four years and a 25% winning percentage! a group of kids that have no clue on how to play possesion basketball how to play team defense. Miller has changed offense continually which makes it very hard to learn an offense and then he is not discipline enough to make the kids run an offense. He does the same with defenses, he has a bunch of defensive schemes and the kids are not disciplined by him to run any of them. he never leads the team he only crisis manages them. only reacting to problems instead of being proactive with the kids. he has no clue how to motivate the kids and build their confidence. talk to any of the other coaches that he coaches against, talk to any of the officals, former players, or anyone that knows the game of basketaball and they will tell you he does not know what he is doing. if Miller had any integrity he would see that he is not doing a good job and step down. he he cared for the kids (instead of his own ambitions) he would step down, if he cared for the community and/or the school he would step down!

Comment #14: If Miller is passionate about the game of basketball and coaching the kids who are equally passionate, maybe the school should pay to send him to some coaching clinics to give him some ideas about how to run plays, how to interact with kids (which he does in the classroom daily) on the court, and how to network with other coaches who have a less than stellar record. After all, basketball like football and wrestling should be one of the sports that the community comes out to see whether they have kids on the team or not. It truly is all about the kids and kids like to have people come and see them play. He needs some support from his AD and some intervention should take place before the community totally throws him under the bus. An organization (school athletics as a whole) is only as good as it's weakest link. So, who is the weakest link? (Hint: Not the basketball coach)

Comment #13: He has totally destroyed the once proud program. He swears at the kids and has no knowledge of the game. He should have been replaced 2 or 3 years ago. Kids are transferring to othr schools because Miller teaches them nothing. There is plenty of talent, but without leadership and without giving them a chance to win, they never will. Orting is the laughing stock of everyone in the league, and its not because of no talent. There is no direction from Miller.

Comment #12: To answer some of your comments there is talent in the school. In fact, several years ago had incredible athletes (Halihuni's class). Why is Football so good? Baseball, Soccer? How can you say there is no talent? He had the last class since 7th grade, so guess what, it is the talent he developed. How about good sportsmanship and getting kicked out of the 6th grade summer game recently. How about running a new play each week when you never did run the prior play in any games. People need to keep what John does with camps and kids aside from his ability to coach. Be a little closer to program before you make comments regarding his ability....

Comment #11: My son played for Coach Miller in 6th grade. We moved away, but we still hear how great he is 3 years later. Now we are moving back and my son can't wait to play for Orting. We both looked at the current OHS record and we're not thrilled. I know next to nothing about coaching, but my son is excited to play for Coach Miller. From the stories my son tells, Coach Miller teaches/coaches a 'never-give-up/teamwork' lesson that rarely gets through in sports today. Face it, that is the real reason to play highschool sports, NOT just to win. How many of the kids in our league are going to the pro's???

Comment #10: I can't really speak to whether or not Mr Miller is a good coach. What I do know is that there has been a lack of talent in the program for some time. Has anyone looked into the coaching that goes on at the middle school level? If they are not being taught the right fundamentals at that level, it would be pretty hard for Mr Miller to get them up to speed. To speak so poorly of such a great teacher is really pathetic. I would hate to lose this man from our teaching staff because people feel the need to dwell on this and try to run him out of town!!

Comment #9: As I was going through the Orting Jr. High and High School I ended up being 'taught' by coaches who were hired to coach. I had science and history teaches who took the teams to state, but were not challenging any of us in the classroom. John Miller is a great teacher. He has values. I certainly wouldn't mind having him coach one of my children in a sport.

Comment #8: Comment #1 has a good point, all that is heard within the community is the negative regarding the coach. Are there two sides to this story or not?

Comment #7: I think Coach Miller has done an outstanding job with the Basketball program at OHS. Our kids may not be top in the state, but they are learning things that are much more important in life, like teamwork, good sportsmanship and giving back to thier community. Coach Miller is an excellent example of how we all should be interacting with the young adults of Orting.

Comment #6: This is not about Basketball its about kids. If anybody ever went to a game and watch them play you can see its not the Boys fault. This coach knows nothing about basketball if we didn't have a AD that was a football coach, Miller wouldn't be the basketball coach. The school is doing wrong by letting this happen. I guess the Admin. really don't care about who they choose to fill these coaching jobs. People have a good reason to be whining about this and I hope they don't stop until something is done.

Comment #5: How many coaches did the school go through in the 5 years before Coach Miller, 3 or 4? Miller has had a tough go with the lack of talent these last few years and I don't care if you were Pat Reily you weren't going to when many games. It is to bad that people who won a state championship 20 years ago think they know everything.

Comment #4: Has no control of his players. They show no signs of discipline. Using grade school plays to compete in high school league. Get rid of him.

Comment #3: you got to kidding o h s has not had a coach since jerry clyde

Comment #2: I have always heard good things about him. Especially from the Orting School District students.

Comment #1: I wish Coach would do an interview with Orting News and let the community how HE FEELS versus the rampant whining of a few people who have it out for him.